David P. Boder Interviews Bronė Skudaikienė; September 21, 1946; München, Germany

var transcription = { interview: [ David Boder

[In English] Munich, September 21st, 1946. At the Baltic camp, populated by Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians. The Interview is Ms. Bronė Skudaikienė, widow who claims that her husband was killed in Lithuania at the time of the Sowjet. She is 36 years old and has here 2 children.

David Boder

[In German] Wie alt sind die Kinder? Nochmal.

David Boder

[In English] One is 14 years old, und der andere six. Her German causes her difficulty. We will have interview probably part in German, part in Lithuanian.

David Boder

[In German] Also, Frau Skudaykina, sagen Sie mir mal, wo waren Sie, wenn die Sowjets gekommen sind nach Litauen?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ich war in Litauen. In . . .

David Boder

Welche Stadt?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Žemaičių Kalvarija.

David Boder

Žemaičių Kalvarija? Wie weit ist das von Wilna?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Von Wilna? Von Wilna ist das 200.

David Boder

UngefÃhr 200 km?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ja.

David Boder

Und was haben Sie dort gemacht?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ich war Molkereibuchhalter und mein Mann war Molkereileiter.

David Boder

MolkereiâMolkereibuchhalter und der Mann war Molkerei . . . .

Bronė Skudaikienė

Molkereileiter

David Boder

Was hat Ihr Mann gelernt?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ich .. alles, alles machen.

David Boder

Ja, ist er zur Schule gegangen, bevor . . .

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ja

David Boder

War er Agronom?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Nein, nicht Agronom. Alles Molkerei machen.

David Boder

Und was war das? Ein groÃes Gut? Wo war er in der Molkerei?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Alles arbeiten.

David Boder

[In English/German] Ja. Alright.

David Boder

[In Russian] Ну, говорите по-литовски.

David Boder

[In German] So, sprechen Sie, erzÃhlen Sie mir einfach, was hat passiert, wenn die Russen sind gekommen nach nach Litauen.

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] Mano vyras dirbo, reiÅkia, pienininku, kaip visuomet, aÅ dirbau irgi pieninėj, kada bolÅevikai atėjo, mano vyras turėjo apykinkėj labai gerą pasitikėjimą terp ūkininkų, labai gerą pasitikėjimą terp ūkininkų, tas labai nepatiko bolÅevikams, mano bolÅevikas . . . kartu su bolÅevikais, mano vyras kartu su bolÅevikais nėjo iÅvien, tas labai nepatiko bolÅevikams, jie mano vyrą areÅtavo, areÅtavo keturiasdeÅimts pirmais metais sausio dvyliktą dieną. Uždarė TelÅių kalėjime ir laikė ligi prasidėjo su vokiečiais karas. Karui prasidėsiant visus politiniu kaliniuss, jų tarpe ir mano vyrą, septyniasdeÅims tris vyrus žiauriausiu būdu nužudė Rainių miÅkelyje. Pirmiausia, buvo labai žiaurus jųjų suėmimas, sudėta į maÅinas, ma . . . paleido motorus, kad negirdėtų jų riksmo, buvo suriÅti burnos, per burnas buvo pažaboti, rankos taip pat suriÅtos, ir tuomet nuvežė į miÅkelį, tenai iÅkasė keturias duobes, juos žiauriausiu būdu nužudė. Būtent jie buvo labai žiauriai plikinami, paleistos elektrinės maÅinos, paskui virinami kopūstai ir dedami jiems ant burnos . . . ir . . . buvo net iÅlupamos akys, nupjaustomi liežuviai, nupjaustomos ausys, ir tada jie buvo visi taip žiauriai nukankinti, sumuÅti, tiesiog suvirintos odos lūpuose, nuo rankų, nuo veidų, kūnas visas buvo kruvinas, ir suriÅtomis rankomis, ir pažaboti jie buvo taip nužudyti, ir tuomet už . . . suversti visi į duobę ir užkasti. Ir tuomet jie visi bolÅevikai pabėgo iÅ Lietuvos. Praėjus keturioms dienoms tiktai tuomet reiÅkia rado partizanai tas duobes, buvo labai vis įtartina, ir atidarę duobes rado visus politkalinius. Tuomet juos visus iÅkasė, suguldė lauke, po tam susirinko visi ž . . . pažįstami, giminės, ir juos visus palaidojo labai iÅkilmingai, TelÅių . . . TelÅiuose tokių iÅkilmių ir tokio . . . tokios baisios eisenos turbūt labai retai kas yra matę.

David Boder

[In Russian] Ну, а ес . . . теперь расскажите мне . . .

David Boder

[In German] Ah, jetzt erzÃhlen Sie mir bitte, was hat Ihnen passiert und wie, wenn die Deutschen gekommen sind nach Litauen?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] Kada vokiečiai atėjo, taip pat irgi nebuvo labai, ba ūkininkams ir labai sunku, dėl to kad . . . dėl to, kad buvo labai didelės prievolės, rÎikėjo ūkininkams statyti labai daug pienas, pienines, ke . . . mėsą, taip pat viskam, ir paskutiniu laiku, kada matė, kad vokiečiams labai blogai sekasi, tada labai gaudė vyrus, vežti į darbus į Vokietiją. Atvažiuodavo žmonės į turgų, tai apsupdavo turgų, paimdavo vietos policija, karuomenė, ir visus visus vyrus sugaudydavo sodydavo į maÅinas ir veždavo į Vokietiją. Veždavo visus darbams. Taip kad atskirdavo vyrus nuo žmonų, tėvus nuo vaikų.

David Boder

[In Russian] Как вы сюда . . .

David Boder

[In German] Wie sind Sie nach MÃnchen gekommen? Litauisch.

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] AÅ į Miuncheną atvažiavau keturiasdeÅimt penktais metais gegužės dvideÅims trečią dieną.

David Boder

[In German] Haben Sie Verwandte in Amerika?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] Turiu . . . Mamos brolis ir vyro brolis yra . . .

David Boder

[In German] Haben Sie schon Afidavit bekommen?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] Ne

David Boder

Wollen Sie nach Amerika gehen?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] Jei galima, visuomet

David Boder

[In German] Haben Sie geschrieben dort? Haben sie die Adresse?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] AÅ raÅiau konsului paieÅkojimą, bet jokio atsakymo negavau.

David Boder

[In German] Haben Sie die Adresse?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Nein, in Konsulat ich geschicken. Sofia.

David Boder

Ach so, sie haben geschicken nach Sofia. Und was denken Sie, wie lange werden Sie hier sein?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ich weià nicht.

David Boder

Und was machen Ihre Kinder hier?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Gehen Schule.

David Boder

Gehen zur Schule?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Zur Schule.

David Boder

Litauische Schule?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Litauische Schule.

David Boder

Aha, und was machen Sie selbst?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ich gehe in . . . Schneiderin machen.

David Boder

Sie sind Schneiderin, oder Sie lernen Schneiderin?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Nein, ich jetzt ausgelernt. Und jetzt arbeiten.

David Boder

FÃr wen?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Der Lagerschneider.

David Boder

FÃr die Lagerschneiderei. Danke sehr, Frau Skudaykina. Das ist sehr interessant. Es tut mir leid, dass ich nicht alles verstehe, aber hier ist es aufgeschrieben und wir werden es dort Ãbersetzen.

Bronė Skudaikienė

Ja, danke.

David Boder

[In English] Munich, September the 21st of 1946. This concludes the short interview with B. Skudaykina, who insists on talking only Lithuanian and unfortunately very difficult for me to steer this conversation. It will be necessary that a competent Lithuanian anthropologist or psychologist really come over and really interview these people.

David Boder

This concluded Spool 9-143A and 9-143B. The last part, 9-143C, the interview with Father Kharchenko, is on a separate spool. This spool contains two interviews, one with Mr. Sevalkaitis or Suvalkaitis, and the other, 9-143B, is Bronė Skudaikienė. Chicago, October the 7th, 1950. Boder.

var english_translation = { interview: [ David Boder

[In English] Munich, September 21st, 1946. At a Baltic camp, populated by Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians. The Interview is Ms. Bronė Skudaikienė, a widow who claims that her husband was killed in Lithuania in the time of the Soviets. She is 36 years old and has here 2 children.

David Boder

[In German] How old are the children? Once again.

David Boder

[In English] One of them is 14 years old, and the other, six. Her German causes her difficulty. We will have interview probably part in German, part in Lithuanian.

David Boder

[In German] So, Mrs. Skudaykina, please tell me where you were when the Soviets came to Lithuania.

Bronė Skudaikienė

I was in Lithuania, in . . .

David Boder

In which town?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Žemaičių Kalvarija.

David Boder

Žemaičių Kalvarija? How far is that away from Vilnius?

Bronė Skudaikienė

From Vilnius? It is about 200 kilometers from Vilnius.

David Boder

About 200 kilometers?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Yeah.

David Boder

And what did you do there?

Bronė Skudaikienė

I worked as an accountant in a dairy, and my husband was the dairy manager.

David Boder

Dairyâaccountant in a dairy, and the husband dairy . . .

Bronė Skudaikienė

Dairy manager.

David Boder

What kind of qualification did your husband have?

Bronė Skudaikienė

I . . . .did everything. Everything.

David Boder

Yeah. Did he go to school, before . . .

Bronė Skudaikienė

Yeah.

David Boder

Had he been an agronomist?

Bronė Skudaikienė

No, not an agronomist. He did everything in the dairy.

David Boder

And what was it like? A large estate? Where had this dairy been?

Bronė Skudaikienė

He did everything.

David Boder

[In German/English] Ja. Alright . . .

David Boder

[In Russian] Well, tell us in Lithuanian then.

David Boder

[In German] So, tell me, just say what happened when the Russians came to Lithuania.

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] So, my husband was a milkman. As always, I was working at his dairy house when the Bolsheviks came. My husband enjoyed high trust with the farmers in those parts, and the Bolsheviks did not like that, my Bolshevik . . . my husband did not go along with the Bolsheviks, and they hated that much. They arrested my husband, arrested him on January 12, 1941. They put him in TelÅiai prison, and kept him there until the war with the Germans started. After the war started, every prisoner of the state, my husband included, a total of seventy-three men, were brutally executed in a forest at Rainiai. First of all, their arrest was very atrocious, they were shoved into cars . . . they started the engines so no one could hear their screams. They were gagged and had their hands tied. Then they took them to the forest, dug out four pits, and brutally executed them. In particular, they were being savagely burned with electrical machines, then they would cook cabbage and put it on their mouths . . . and . . . some even had their eyes clawed out . . . tongues, ears cut off. And then they were all brutally tortured to death. Beaten. The skin of their lips, hands, faces was just boiled away. The entire body was bloodied, and with hands tied, gagged they were slaughtered, and then . . . piled into the pit and covered with dirt. And then all the Bolsheviks ran from Lithuania. It was after four days that partisans found those pits. It was all very suspicious. And once they uncovered them, they found all the prisoners of state. Then they exhumed them all, laid them out in a field and then all the pâ . . . acquaintances, relatives came, and they were all buried ceremoniously, there has rarely been such a ceremony and such a horrible procession for anyone to see in TelÅiai.

David Boder

[In Russian] And now . . . now tell me . . .

David Boder

[In German] Uh, now tell me please, what happened to you, and how did it happen, when the Germans came to Lithuanaia?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] When the Germans came, it was not very good either, because it was hard for the farmers, because . . . because they had many duties. They had alot of milk to produce, dairy houses, baâ . . . meat, and everything. Later, when they saw that the Germans were not doing well, they would catch men and take them away to work in Germany. People would come to the marketplace. So they would surround the marketplace and the local police, the troops, would catch all the men, put them into vehicles and take them to Germany. They would all be taken to work. So husbands were separated from their wives, parents from kids.

David Boder

[In Russian] How did you get here . . .

David Boder

[In German] Which way did you come to Munich? Lithuanian.

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] I came to Munich on the twenty-third day of May, 1945.

David Boder

[In German] Do you have relatives in America?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] I have . . . There is my motherâs brother and husbandâs brother . . .

David Boder

[In German] Have you already received an affidavit?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] No.

David Boder

[In German] Do you want to leave for America?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] At any time, whenever possible.

David Boder

[In German] Did you write to them? Do you have their address?

Bronė Skudaikienė

[In Lithuanian] I wrote an inquiry to the consul, but did not receive a reply.

David Boder

[In German] Do you have the address?

Bronė Skudaikienė

No, I sent it to the consulate, in Sofia.

David Boder

I see. You sent it to Sofia. And what do you think, how long will you still be here?

Bronė Skudaikienė

I have no idea.

David Boder

And what do your children do here?

Bronė Skudaikienė

They go to school.

David Boder

They go to school?

Bronė Skudaikienė

Yeah, to school.

David Boder

A Lithuanian school?

Bronė Skudaikienė

To a Lithuanian school.

David Boder

I see, and what do you do yourself?

Bronė Skudaikienė

I do . . . I am working as a dress maker.

David Boder

So, are you already dress maker, or are you learning how to be a dress maker?

Bronė Skudaikienė

No, I have already finished my training. I am working as a dress maker now.

David Boder

Who do you work for?

Bronė Skudaikienė

For the tailor of the camp.

David Boder

For the tailor shop in the camp. Thank you very much, Mrs. Skudaykina. This is really interesting. I am sorry that I am not able to understand everything, but we wrote it all down here and it will be translated.

Bronė Skudaikienė

Yeah, thanks.

David Boder

[In English] Munich, September the 21st of 1946. This concludes the short interview with B. Skudaykina, who insists on talking only Lithuanian and unfortunately very difficult for me to steer this conversation. It will be necessary that a competent Lithuanian anthropologist or psychologist really come over and really interview these people.

David Boder

This concluded Spool 9-143A and 9-143B. The last part, 9-143C, the interview with Father Kharchenko, is on a separate spool. This spool contains two interviews, one with Mr. Sevalkaitis or Suvalkaitis, and the other, 9-143B, is Bronė Skudaikienė. Chicago, October the 7th, 1950. Boder.