David P. Boder Interviews Vladus Lukosevicius; September 21, 1946; München, Germany

  • David Boder: [In English] Lohengrinstrasse, the Baltic camp in Munich, September the 21st, 1946. We have on the spool 4 minutes left, but we are going to start with the interview of Mr. Vladus Lukosevicius, [stammers], a Lithuanian. Lithuanian?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Jа.
  • David Boder: [stammers] ah, who will talk to us in Russian.
  • David Boder: [In Russian] Ah, how old are you, Mr. Lukosevicius?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Ah, 13, 1913. [1-2 words too weak].
  • David Boder: But how old are you now?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I'm 33 now.
  • David Boder: 33 years old . . . Well, Mr. Lukosevicius, speak [here?] in this direction, and right here to both sides . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1 weak].
  • David Boder: [In this one and this?]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: Tell us where you were when the Russian arrived in Lithuania?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: In 1939?
  • David Boder: Yes. [Life?].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: As I [too weak].
  • David Boder: No, where YOU were when the Russians arrived in Lithuania.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: When the Russians arrived in Lithuania, I was then . . . I was in the Polish army [I, in our?], our country was [1 weak] area under . . . Poland.
  • David Boder: Oh, you were in Poland.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes. I was in the Polish army then (and here) to Germany in captivity . . .
  • David Boder: Aha.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . when [2-3 words too weak].
  • David Boder: [And then?], that is, then tell me where you were when the war began? And tell me everything.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: When the war began in 1939?
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: When, in 1939, when the war began, I was on the 24th of August, I had been mobilized into the Polish army.
  • David Boder: So . . . Well, [wait?] do it like so. Eh, what do you think started the war, when the Germans arrived in Poland or when?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I think the war began in 1939.
  • David Boder: This was when and what was it?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: When the Germans attacked Poland.
  • David Boder: When the Germans.. attacked Poland?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: They . . . Okay, [then nothing?]. So, fine. And where were you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I then [had been called?] into the Polish army.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: But and so [1-2 weak) of September the war started and I was in [1-2 weak/garbled] on the 13th of September I ended up in Germany as a captive and was taken to West Prussia.
  • David Boder: You were captured?..
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . and you were [so?] of Russian . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Garbled and blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: No, as much as captured [2-3 garbled and blocked, both speaking at once while Boder tries to correct what he himself is saying.])
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . in West Prussia in Rosenberg. It was a Kreis . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and Riesenburg the camp.
  • David Boder: So. Now you tell me everything in detail. How was it you were captured, how did they surround you? Tell me all of it. We have [time?] . . . Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, I . . . that is, well [the Germans had taken from us?] all the towns already and we were captured near the town of Siedlce, 3 kilometers from the town of [Siedlce?].
  • David Boder: Where were your officers?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They had taken away the officers [with us did not torment?] and already weren't with us.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [There was no [1-2 garbled] [a hit?]. So, the German tanks smashed us the first time outside of Warsaw, [not far from?] Warsaw, a town there . . . [the city?] [3-4 garbled].
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, so they held like that then . . .
  • David Boder: [1-2 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There [blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: [Did he?] not [seize?] everyone?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, no . . . [they did not seize?] [unknown number of words garbled] [and may?] have held out against the Germans [even then already?] . . .
  • David Boder: [2-3 garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . [they held?]
  • David Boder: And how did you persist . . . [a soldier?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: With us suddenly then in the woods [1-2 garbled]
  • David Boder: How many.. men?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were 17 of us there [in the same place?] [fades, weak and garbled].
  • David Boder: So. So, this means you [1-2 garbled] the regiment was beaten, [it has been shot up?].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So.
  • David Boder: And there were 17 of you men in the woods.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: 17 in one group and we wanted to go along [1-2 garbled] the large road [to a marker?]) . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: and the Germans were riding [to the road) besides to [1-2 garbled] a second ordered us to approach him. As soon as we approached, the captured [us] and drove us to the town of Siedlce to [2-3 garbled/weak].
  • David Boder: Did you have weapons [1-2 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were . . . [weapons?] [1-2 weak]
  • David Boder: So. What did they [say?] to you? Put your hands up?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, when [chuckles] [1 garbled] they said "hands up," yes . . .
  • David Boder: Yes,
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and we lifted our hands.
  • David Boder: Well, tell me in detail Well, okay. They took you to a small town and what?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then the night was ([to it complexly?] [fades/garbled] us.
  • David Boder: [1-2 garbled]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They forced us into a barn, but they told use [1 garbled] there completely all around were Germans and [fades].
  • David Boder: So.
  • David Boder: [In English] This concludes Spool 144. We are going to change over to Spool 145 with a report of Mr. Vladus Lukosevicius, ah, in München, September the 21st, 1946, in a Baltic camp, in a camp for displaced Baltic people of Estonia, Lithuania and . . . hmm, Latvia. Illinois Institute of Technology wire recording.
  • David Boder: September the 21st, 1946, Munich, Germany, at Lohengrinstrasse, the camp for Baltic displaced persons. Lukosevicius, Mr. Vladus Lukosevicius in Russian is continuing his story.
  • David Boder: [In Russian] So, there were 17 of you taken captive . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They captured us.
  • David Boder: . . . and where were you located and what did they do with you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They put us immediately into a barn [one?] where it was also full of Germans [sounds as if he is in a tin can. 1 garbled] [there of the night outdoors?] was full [2-3 weak/garbled]. [After the morning?] they drove us to a prison. There was a large prison in Siedlce, [in the city)?]. So, they gathered us in the prison there and held us there for 2-3 more day, nearly 4,000 had been gathered [already into captivity?] [2-3 garbled].
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, [they gave?] there bread for 5 men to eat [for a day?] one [small loaf?]. After, they forces 4,000 people on foot, they forces us, force us up to [well, some?] 170 kilometers. For, for 40 kilometers [a day?] [1-2 garbled]. They didn't give us anything to eat [healthful?].
  • David Boder: Well, go on.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Long pause, then both speak at once, all garbled] Yes. They drove us . . .
  • David Boder: [Blocked by above] Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: to the Prussian border to the town of [?Grakbova??], [?Grakbova??] station. Then they forced 70 men each into one boxcar, 70 people per car.
  • David Boder: So. And how did you know it was 70?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, it was then so full, we were able to count.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: To stand, there was no place . . . to sit.
  • David Boder: So . . . Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then they took us [across one part?] of Prussia, [1-2 garbled] the windows were closed, where we didn't ourselves know, [they too us?] the whole day after they left us in Riesenburg.
  • David Boder: Were there only prisoners?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Prisoners, there were only prisoners.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then there were 18,000 of us already in Riesenburg.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we stayed outdoors and not under roof, it was really cold, that was [at?] the end of September really.
  • David Boder: Yes. So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, after the Germans arrived at Great [1-2 garbled-probable name] [from?] a factory and took several men each to the factories Great [1 garbled, probable name], so they counted out 30 of us men and for-, forced us to a bathhouse, disinfected us and inoculated us and then . . . ..
  • David Boder: So, shots a- . . . against diseases?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Against some kind of desease.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, after they took us from Great [1 garbled, possibly name. Sounds like "Odnoimenia?]), which the tiergarten was called.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And we worked there [full work?].
  • David Boder: Field work?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, field work.
  • David Boder: What month was this?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: This was 13 kilometers from Riesenburg.
  • David Boder: I said, [which?] month was this? [When was it?]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, it was [at?] the end of September.
  • David Boder: So . . . And what did you do?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We gathered beets and dug [?sukrovye??] and potatoes.
  • David Boder: So. And did they feed you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They also fed us for 5 people, one load of bread and they gave us sup there for dinner. [Blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: And was it possible to eat the beets?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We also [tried?] to eat the beets. [Unknown number garbled.]
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 garbled]
  • David Boder: Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well then we, I lived there 3 months. And there of the Lithuanian, Lithuanian nationality was [of the Polish army?], there were 11 of us men in this place.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we lived there already for 3 months . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . So, we thought about running away.
  • David Boder: How many of you thought about it?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Five men.
  • David Boder: Hmm-mm. And where [to go already?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Home. Home.
  • David Boder: Where To Lithuania?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: To Lithuania, yes.
  • David Boder: But there were Germans there.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We didn't have them then, there were no Germans.
  • David Boder: And was?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were the Bolsheviks.
  • David Boder: Oh! So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, we thought about running away and then we unscrewed [the flashing?] on 11 November at night . . . good [1-2 garbled] the windows.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There we fabricated a monkey wrench in the blacksmith's shop . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . And [we escaped?] through the window. Then for 3 days and 3 nights [we counted that?] to Western [Blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: And the other didn't expect [that?] [1-2 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The others were sleeping at night. They didn't hear, who heard, so were [already?] for us . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . good comrades [laughs] so even they didn't [say?] anything.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [But?] there were Germans in the other room, who had been watching us.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: But, the windows were with gratings and [the doors?] at the headquarters, [maybe it was enclosed?]) . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . [so of cours?].
  • David Boder: So . . . Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We [escaped?] so 3 days and 3 night across Prussia and while we were going to the Polish territory we didn't have anything to eat. [To?] the military clothing it was impossible to show ourselves to the Germans [anywhere?]
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And on the road to ask for cabbage soup, only downwind [at nights? ).
  • David Boder: Didn't you have any symbols on your clothing that you were prisoners?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Since?] our clothing was all Polish.
  • David Boder: Aha.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Military clothing.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we didn't should ourselves at day. We walked only at night and not along the roads, but through the fields and right through the woods.
  • David Boder: So. Five men.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Five men.
  • David Boder: So. And what did you eat?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, for 3 days we didn't eat anything.
  • David Boder: Well [blocked by Lukosevicius]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [But there wasn’t any more?]
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: What [we had taken?] with ourselves potatoes there, a little [cheese?], as we had been thinking to run away, so again at this estimate we took for ourselves there a little millet bread, and we were not able to ask anyone along the way for 3 days anything [we did not get anywhere, all day?] We didn't know how to say that [in German?] and the other thing was, that the clothing was military.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we walked to [blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: [Blocked]. Of course there was food?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was possible there [food and some water?] [blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: Well, just something, you did eat something, right?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, one day we ate what we had with us.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We had taken [that in the pockets?], there wasn't even anything to take.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: A after 2 days we didn't eat anything.
  • David Boder: Aha.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And so I [and just what?] [were?] not glad that we had escpated. [We would have wanted that?] [unknown number of words garbled] too.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we went to Polish territory already for, [he will help?] there.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then, people already helped us, [then already?] we [were living?] okay.
  • David Boder: So. [Blocked by Lukosevicius]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: To, [along?] Polish territory, [it was?] [1 garbled] by Germans already?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Germans were in the villages, [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: So. But, [in?] Poland did the Poles help?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Poles [1-2 garbled] helped very well. At night along a [piece?] at night, yes, [you ask aren't there any Germans in this village?] and they would indicate that there are no Germans in [this village?], then we would enter a room at night and they would feed us, and on the road then it was already good.
  • David Boder: So. Well.. And where did you [end up?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, well like this. We got [stammers] to the Soviet border, where there already it was, ah, the Soviet-German border. [Poland?] had been divided.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, we . . . got right up to, there is such a river the Narva.
  • David Boder: Yes. The Narva?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Narvy . . . The Narev.
  • David Boder: The Narev. So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Nareva.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Nareva.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, [interrupted by Boder].
  • David Boder: [Wait?] a tributary [of the Neva)?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Not the Neva, the Visla.
  • David Boder: A tributary of the Visla to the Neva.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Blocked by Boder] the Narva.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then we in this, in this, there were guards there on [the bridges?].
  • David Boder: Russian!
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, no, still German.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we were afraid to go across the river, we had to swim across the Narva river [he continues to call it the Narva. It is the Narev.] This Narva river [is?] rather wide.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, in [stops] ah, in a village near the Narva it was full of Germans.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we [individually?] decided there in [1-2 garbled], everyone looked [1-2 garbled] [the German us?] at nights as already [it had been tried?] so in this village lived fisherman and there were boats there.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Boats. So, at night we [as attempted?] we went into the village, stole a boat [so that we started?]) [3-4 garbled] the river. But, the small brook that passed the village toward the Narva was already ice covered, but the larger rive was not frozen. Then we [carried this?] boat and [three sat down?] [stammers] in the boat to cross this river and ga- gathered [full of ice?]. Then again [of the holes?] were pulled out into this water [1-2 garbled] and a trio sat down and crossed the river to the other side.
  • David Boder: And two were left?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Two were left. One then returned and again took them . . .
  • David Boder: Well, so.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and brought them across the river.
  • David Boder: And the Germans didn't notice anyone.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Germans didn't notice.
  • David Boder: And the Russians didn't notice?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Russians were further, it was still further to the Russian border, well . . .
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . maybe about another 20 kilomters.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: To this river. Well then, as we had walked with luck, we crossed this river and reached the very Soviet border unnoticed, completely unnoticed and we didn't know in this direction [1-2 garbled] who wouldn't detain us at the border.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: As much as they detained us, it was already 15 kilometers beyond the border [2-3 garbled] city . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . a Soviet patrol there.
  • David Boder: So. Well..
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, it had been going very well for us and we didn't think that there was [those who had come, reached?] a window. We thought that the farmer, to sleep through the day and through the night. [We desired?] that we sleep at day. Well. [we refused?] that the Russian soldiers there [nearly 40 of them slept?]. [Questionable passages as well as possibly bad grammar make this sentence extremely difficult to translate. The sentence probably should read: "Well, it turned out that there were nearly 40 Russian soldiers sleeping there."] Well, it was not us [1 garbled], they gave us [salami?] [2-3 garbled], they gave us some bread, everything, well (stammers/2-3 garbled] we were doing, [we didn't have?] any such weapons and we slept with them as with good friends.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well then, the second day, in the morning, [they took?] us already there to their, to their commandant's office. The questioned how that what [garbled], we all were able to speed Russian well. Well, so, the let us go home to our own homeland, where, where I lived.
  • David Boder: And [in unbelief?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Vilnius area [where I?] lived there. Well, so we then started . . .
  • David Boder: Louder.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . then we already had arrived by train.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 weak/garbled] the station [to Lyntupy?] and went home on foot there already. Well, all the time nothing [was strking?].
  • David Boder: A bit louder. [Boder must believe Lukosevicius is not speaking loudly enough, but he is almost too loud.]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes. We lived the whole time under Soviet authority, but I worked as a business and how . . . it had begun [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: [You what, were you a farm worker?])?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, [a farm worker?.) . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . as a farmer. Well, we lived all the time as in 1941 the war started.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then the Germans arrived.
  • David Boder: And the soldier didn't take you prisoner?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Russians?
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They didn’t take us, the did not, not have time. There wasn't time when [this very rapid?] [2-3 garbled].
  • David Boder: So. So the Germans arrived.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes. Then the Germans arrived. As the Germans arrived, well then I too as [a businessman, well so and a businessman, just nothing like it?]. But I can say such only in the event as early as in 1942.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, in 1942 and . . . as we . . . we already had [1-2 garbled] to [?kipits??] [the commissars?] and they were [farm workers?] [3-4 garbled], well so, in the town of Lyntupy?, in Lyntupy?, a very small town. (2-3 garbled] town. So, it was ordered there that the Germans were coming to collect the horses and carts in the town of Lyntupy?. Well so, early in the morning, it was 1942, the 20th of May . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . The Svenchan kreislandwirtschaftsfuehrer Josef Beck and his deputy [Walter Gruel?] [or possibly Walter Gruen] were going by auto to Lyntupy? [1 garbled] [to take?] the horses [1 garbled], and 4 kilometers before the reached Lyntupy?, the city, the town, well, some kind of partisans killed these Germans.
  • David Boder: Beck?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Beck and [Gruel/Gruen?] some kind of lieutenant also and there . . .
  • David Boder: [?[Gruel/Gruen?], was [this?] a Lithuanian?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No. [?[Gruel/Gruen?], was also this, [Walter [Gruel/Gruen?] was deputy kreislandwirtschaftsfuehrer . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And one captain a German and a driver and the translator, Rakauskaite.
  • David Boder: Well
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, so, they killed all of these.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Only this translator remained alive, but the driver, I don't know [how he was?].
  • David Boder: Well.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then after 2 hours this, from according to this case, after this case at 2:00 o'clock [with him from this?] from Vilno . . .
  • David Boder: Well
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . The SS, the Sicherheit unit, arrived . . . [Lukosevicius pronounces German words with Russian endings.]
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and surrounded all the village 4 kilometers, at a radius of 4 kilometers. And all the men from 18 years old, if he were 16 years old [1 garbled] not small [age?] of the man, the gathered [everyone?]. Up to 60 years, up to 55 so, they did not take the women. Well, so, the people didn't know anything. They thought that they would be helping find these partisans [that?] had done this.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: But, they [1-2 garbled]. They collected everyone, hmm, the people, and I [had been trying?] to, I was leaving Lyntupy . . .
  • David Boder: Hm-mmm.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and [in my pocket?] and me [on a body where these?] people stood, one in a shirt, another without a peaked cap, [1 garbled], who stood and something the Germans around with rifles [at?] [2-3 garbled] rifle Germ(ans) were walking around. One German [appeared?] out of this [company?] and called me to approach him. I again immediately [and I didn't want to?]. He moved up [frivolously?] and [said] "come here." Well, I approached and he showed me where [1-2 garbled] to stand. I in German [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: [Blocked/garbled] to stand?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Where the people were standing. Nearly 60 men were already standing . . .
  • David Boder: Apart?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Apart, and around them wal, walked Germans with rifles . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . at the ready. Well, then if I didn't want [these?] Germans [captured me?] [5-6 garbled] said where to stand there. I stood, but from, I wanted to ask these people, what [2-3 garbled] "Who [drove?] you," but (it/I) did not [2-3 garbled] that I didn't say anything.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then for some . . . another half hour they drove in more people, the drove in more men gather from other villages. ["Drove" is used in the sense of "driving cattle."] There already perhaps were nearly 200, and so one [could?] not well according to them [to indicate myself to be regarded?] everything from fear. Well, and then [garbled] throught [1 garbled] village to Lyntupy. So, we thought there would be some kind of interrogation. [He would?] ask [someone?], something they drove and then turned to [Barannoe?] Field, near the woods there is a such a burial ground and there was [1 garbled] wires around ([gorodina??]. They drove us and left us and said to come ahead already in three, [threes, well?]. In threes ahead. [Three each so?] they supplied, and German SS soldiers were laying there with rifles and with machine guns and they began to shoot. From [the first?] [1-2 garbled] [to cry out?] [1 garbled] the 3rd and the 4th, and everyone began to cross themselves and to pray. There one of the second [1 garbled] a father with a son and a brother with a brother began to see just that [wasn't already?] earlier [had passed?] the village. So, [the Germans carried?] every village one at a time. [1 garbled] [entered?] [one?] village [2-3 garbled] of a company [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: And you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [2 garbled]. "Well, come here. Come on." [Well that again will bring training again?]. That man doesn't know [for what and how?] [Unknown number of garbled words] [they brought one already. They brought each village one at a time?].
  • David Boder: And did the say why they [1-2 garbled]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Nothing, nothing, they didn't say anything. The, well, they began to shoot so [1-2 garbled] [three at a time they?] held on [everyone three each?]. [After?] [1-2 garbled] [such?] can already fif- [stops, corrects) nearly 50 men were killed.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So everyone, one was located of such [1-2 garbled] village [?Zhiromsk??] [such?]. So, that one grabbed [1 garbled], jumped at the German machine gunners, [and succeeded?] to take away a machine gun. So, at this time there was luck for some to escape. [How he fought?] with these [pauses/interrupted by Boder]
  • David Boder: [1-2 garbled] there was one machine gun?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There was a machine gun from one side, from the other there I was unable to count [3-4 garbled] [200?]. [2-3 garbled] not completely remembered, everything [wasn't?] . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . remembered fully.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 garbled] [crossed themselves?] and no one knew what to do.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, to stand all around with automatic weapons and bayonets on the rifles all around, and here [a soldier?] [1-2 garbled] they shoot.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, how he fought that one such [1-2 garbled] was a man, he fought with this machine gunner, so more Germans jumped in and [attacked him with bayonets?], and I, perhaps some half minutes passed and at this time maybe nearly 20 of us men succeeded in escaping.
  • David Boder: Where [did you run?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Into the woods.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [We ran?], I don't remember anything [where and what, to [2-3 garbled] on, on these which [1-2 blocked by Boder] . . .
  • David Boder: [Blocked by Lukosevicius, above].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . And [they held onto?] the killed and so straight into the woods and [1-2 garbled] [and so needed?], I don't even remember anything, how, how, how it remained. And the firing there was long and there nearly 400 men were killed [on that very day?] and finished off. Well, then on the next day . . .
  • David Boder: Were they all Lithuanians?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were [Slovaks, and also there were?] Byelorussians there. [The dubious word "Slovaks" is most definitely not "Poles." According to Piotrowski there were 200 Poles killed that day on the streets and in their homes.]
  • David Boder: So. Were there any Jews?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were no Jews.
  • David Boder: No. [Blocked by Lukosevicius]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [They?] already [1-2 garbled] the Jews apart [2-3 garbled] [among?] the villages [well, somewhere equal to a field?], and well in the field [1 garbled] a man, the Germans arrived [come here?]. That hone didn't know anything, [he left a horse?] [1-2 garbled]. He approached here to [1 garbled) not to pass, "come with us." And he went and he went, so well, a man, ah, was sitting in a room, [2-3 garbled] "come here." Ano . . . Another [still didn't know?] he saw that all the people [were walking by day?] and he went there as left [blocked by Boder]. [Lukosevicius may be speaking about the Germans rounding up people from their fields and homes. During this part of the interview he was very agitated and speaking very rapidly.]
  • David Boder: Yes. [Who is with you?]? [Both speaking at once. All garbled.]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . [garbled] went to look. And everything. And so they killed them . . . Well, then on the next day and [with the evening?] [Blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: Well, how did you run away?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I ran into the woods. It, I [3-5 garbled] village some 4 kilometers [1-2 garbled].
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, I ran away and [stammers] and I myself don't remember anything how, what . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . For the time being it has come from memory. Well, then [I thought?] I already was home.
  • David Boder: You went home?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I went home.
  • David Boder: So. And you [2-3 garbled] wrote [1-2 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They didn't write anything in any way. Well. [they took?] [blocked by Boder]
  • David Boder: This means that you were [blocked by Lukosevicius].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, they/we were not able [to know?] anything.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And they did [not?] look for anything and [1-2 garbled/too weak] anything. Well, they took such [they got rid of, it was necessary to settle?] everything. Well, then they finished off the people so who had remained alive, so well the other [half of the woods?] both alive and healthy, and those not alive [she was?], well, from [2-3 garbled]. [So he/This way?], so, I/he lay there as the Germans left. They finished off those who were still alive. They shot them in the head with explosive bullets.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, so . . . one another there [further?] 300 [1-2 garbled) perhaps 3 people [to leave and along the bodies?] [2-3 garbled]. [Unknown number garbled and lost as his voice fades].
  • David Boder: And who [1-2 garbled] buried [these?] [1 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, [after, after?] on the next day the drove the people into the village [2-3 garbled] town of Lyntupy and then they dug [these?] large 80 meters in the [in length?] channels and there laid as many rows there and buried them. And on the next day there also was a lot of shooting, so further among the other villages, both in the village of Shudovtsy [about 2.1 kilometers NNE of Lyntupy] and they brought them [1-2 garbled] [in the morning?] [2-3 garbled] of a vehicle one at a time [1 garbled] [taped?] [them] and shot [them] one at a time. So, then not one escaped.
  • David Boder: And who did the shooting?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Germans.
  • David Boder: And not, not Poles [1 blocked by Lukosevicius].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No.
  • David Boder: SS or Ukrainian>SS
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No. Then not. Then [they were?] . . .
  • David Boder: [German SS?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . only German [because they?] spoke German and we were not able to [do?] anything with them. [1-2 garbled] a peaked cap too [2-3 garbled].
  • David Boder: [Unknown number of words garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, yes . . . Yes.
  • David Boder: Well
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then it was already on the next day [it was indicated how?] they shot.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: On the next day [so already?] they were shooting in further already, in further villages which were already more than 4 kilometers in radius . . . Yes . . .
  • David Boder: It was near Svenchan.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Near Svenchan and Lyntupy.
  • David Boder: Lyntupy.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Near Lyntupy. It was completely of Lyntupy.
  • David Boder: And what, Pod . . . Podbrodzie was near there?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was also 30 kilometers to Podbrodzie, well.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was entirely, the shot were in Lyntupy, the town, [near a grave?].
  • David Boder: (25:04) So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Near a cemetery?].
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then as they buried this large [again one?] in, in [packet?] ground, so then they said [stammer) already to compare [a little?], so there was no kind, [sow?] no kind of memorial. But anyhow, people [began?] to plant flowers and erect crosses after dark. [Well?] again [1-2 garbled] the people in order to compare for what time. [He would place?] five crosses [1-2 garbled] plant flower, and that near . . . near the road they totally shot these [terribly?]. After [the event?] on the next day, there in [?Zharki??] a village [2-3 garbled] there [from these?] . . . So . . . the people often place crosses there, too. And how on Sunday they went [1-2 garbled) it was full of women there. Full, full [1 garbled] screaming and screaming and crying. But it was so that a father and [two sons?] were killed [stammers] the husbands [of these killed?] women [1-2 garbled) stayed for a long time . . .
  • David Boder: Well . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . so in this case there . . . Well, after [again?] there was such an [ceremony?] in the city of Svenchan, Novye Svenchany, in Adutiskis, Postavy, so near Novye Svenchany [43?] kilometers. Many people were shot there at Novye Svenchany. [Two?] of two priests they [brought?] the Catholics killed [1 garbled]. [Everything then?] they thought the Germans, that they killed 400 people, [but?] most likely it was nearly 1,000 [in all?] of it.
  • David Boder: Well, and again [1-2 garbled] continued, what were [1 garbled]. And you returned [yourself?] to the village [blocked by Lukosevicius].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So I [returned?] again right away to the village. After I got work.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, after there was an [action?], and they called our, our birth year again into the army. It [1-2 garbled], I did [not?] go to the commission, to the commission.
  • David Boder: Into the German army?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, [I?] also [did not go?] into the German. After the action there was [1-2 garbled] there they [already?] surrounded everyone so [of the whole place?] [1-2 garbled], the peo(ple) were jolted, the men and women were searching.
  • David Boder: and [what?] is an action called? [What?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They considered an action, to catch people and take them to Germany, and [1-2 garbled] take into the army.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So they considered an action in 1943 [rest blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: Well, [blocked by Lukosevicius, above] was it?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then there was already nothing like it, only I hid, I didn't show myself anywhere.
  • David Boder: So. Well, and well how did it continue, and what happened later?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, afterwards already . . .
  • David Boder: And so it was like this for you until the Russians arrived . . . [1-2 garbled] the Germans.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes. Well, then they already had put us down and nothing like it. And, as early as 1944 when . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . arrived, reach . . . the Soviet front approached close, then I went into the city of Svenchan once interested in [2-3 garbled] a German caught me . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . And they thy were not going to release me. They took me, [I went?] to the city of Shyaulyai, Shyaulyai.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: and there I landed in a camp. And there were Russian prisoners, they had collected many men there.
  • David Boder: And [1-2 garbled] why as Russian prisoners?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, there was, in one barracks were the Russian military prisoners . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . Soviet. And there (2-3 garbled) us so civilians were in another barracks. [1-2 garbled] already myself in a region where there were [pilots?].
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [He held me?] there like 4 days and they took me to Germany.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: In the city . . .
  • David Boder: You had what? A wife and children?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: There were also a wife and children.
  • David Boder: [Apart?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [They had stayed?] at home.
  • David Boder: They had stayed at home?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They had stayed at home.
  • David Boder: So, what [blocked by Lukosevicius].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I don't know anything where [they are?]. They captured [me] on the street [both talking at once].
  • David Boder: So, they captured [you] on the street?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: And nothing.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No one knows anything.
  • David Boder: Do you have relatives so you can write them anything through America?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I don't have such relatives in America. But I have some in Brazil.
  • David Boder: So. And you didn't try [2-3 garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I haven't tried.
  • David Boder: So. We, then further. And again where did they take you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They took me to Herzogenburg. There near Herzogenburg we dug large, deep holes, 3 1/2 meters each and 4 meter, meters wide. [He installed?] some kind of iron columns, like lights [2-3 garbled] [for electric?]. and 53 meters each [high?]
  • David Boder: (29:11) Why [1-2 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, I don't know [1-2 garbled].
  • David Boder: And well, you dug holes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I dug for 3 months.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And after this [stops when Boder interrupts].
  • David Boder: How did they hold you, how did they feed you, how did the behave toward you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They behaved so as with [rolled up?]. They fed us so, well . . . I can't say, but well, already like in our, in our country the swine eat better cabbage soup than they gave us people to eat.
  • David Boder: Well, [4-5 garbled], [well, okay.).
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: In the morning . . . at 5 a.m. we had to [go to the ??bakal??]. Well, [?kal??] was somehow blanched [?niby??] and was not sweetened [3-4 garbled] [to do?] a little.
  • David Boder: And did they give you some bread [then?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They gave us some bread in the morning.
  • David Boder: What kind of bread was it? . . . Did they bake every day or every week?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, we did not [know?] from where they brought the bread.
  • David Boder: "From where they brought the bread"?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Blocked by Boder, above]. Yes.
  • David Boder: And there was a fine sawdust on it [stammers].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was, it was, it was sawdust.
  • David Boder: Ah, [in the arm?], you didn't know that it was a German preserved bread. The say that [blocked by Lukosevicius].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And we didn't know.
  • David Boder: . . . squares . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, yes.
  • David Boder: So, like [1-2 garbled], [
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Garbled]
  • David Boder: Aha. And they were not and then [1-2 garbled] packed, they packed [1-2 blocked by Lukosevicius] . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, yes, yes.
  • David Boder: . . . with wood.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was, it was with all around with sawdust [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: Yes, and I . . .
  • David Boder: [In English] I want to make a remark. I couldn't track this down, but in certain lagers they were giving a bread that is equivalent to some kind of a canned or preserved bread that was baked a long time ago and then in a compressed form so to speak kept in boxes between sawdust and then it was distributed in the ah, in the ah camps. In the lagers Alright . . .
  • David Boder: [In Russian] Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then in the morning they gave us some bread for 5 [it was a quota?] for five people.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And they gave us a little margarine.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And then as early as 6 a.m. we went to work.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Into the car, and we went. [Do you want for a while with this?] bread [to share?].
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then even . . . we had to work for the whole day. To dig and dig the ground. To throw it 3 1/2 meters [up?]. And well as a starting hole so and not so deep and so the last was already very deep at [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: Deep and [2-3 garbled] a square.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 garbled] though it up and watch and scream and even shove. Greeks worked there, French worked and ah, Poles . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well.
  • David Boder: [Garbled and blocked by Lukosevicius] were?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: After . . . [?Ilin??]? I still didn’t have to [3-4 garbled]. The Greeks beat the Poles many times.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I tried to work as much as I could, but I was already afraid [1-2 garbled].
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then as early as the 16th, the 16th.. hmm . . . Well . . . of November November 16th [1 garbled] 10 of us men to dig trenches, as it was in 1947 . . . no, in 194- . . .
  • David Boder: 4.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . in 1944.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes, to dig trenches. Well, but 6 of us Lithuanians and 4 Bulgarians . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . they took [us] from this camp . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The recognized how already that we can work again and we were sent to the trenches.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: In the city of Deutschkreuz near Hun-, Hungary.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 garbled], [near?] the Hungarian border. There we also lived 3 months and we worked. We dug trenches. There is was somewhat better. Somewhat better. And they gave us a little more bread. Well, and the work was not so, it was not so severe. And fewer, we had to work fewer hours.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: there in, in this city Deutschkreuz the work of these people, who dug the trenches near [fades to nil].
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [All?] [1 garbled] nationality. There were French, Italians, Poles and Russians. There were very few Lithuanians.
  • David Boder: So . . . . Well?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, then we dug these trenches for 3 months. And after [this?] the front had moved very close to Hungary, and it was already heard that it was very close . . .
  • David Boder: Who?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The Sov, the Soviet was already out, [liable?].
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [And we were afraid?] that to, to the front to get into a rail car [we escaped?] from these trenches.
  • David Boder: Who [right?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Ah, we . . .
  • David Boder: Who [right?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Five men.
  • David Boder: Lithuanians?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Yes.
  • David Boder: These were people (1 garbled) who had escaped there with you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Ah, no, not those . . .
  • David Boder: [Who?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . [It was?] who [1 garbled] had been lifted here as early as in this.
  • David Boder: So. Well, and how did you escape and to where did you escape?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We escaped to Vienna, we arrived in the city of Vienna and there . . .
  • David Boder: How? Did you ride or walk?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We rode [on this?] [possibly misprounced "by train" in Russian]. According to, we were sent already some troop trains from [?Svonyali??] some workers . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . well already [2-3 garbled/blocked by Boder] . . .
  • David Boder: [Blocked]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . and we arrived in Vienna with the transportation. in Vienna:..
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . in Vienna we jumped off the transport and found there was a so-called Lithuanian [?sayunga?? - Possibly a Lithuanian work for "representative" or "legation") there.
  • David Boder: A union?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Lithuanian, well, it was a directorate.
  • David Boder: So, in Vienna?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: in Vienna:
  • David Boder: So, really wasn't it Nazi? [sic]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No [hesitatingly), well . . . I don't know to say so [there?] . . .
  • David Boder: So. And just what did you do?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, there we told them that we wanted, we did not want to return to this firm, where we worked there, and we wanted that with [a farmer we did those?], so that [he already did not?] bother us in these camps, in order to re-, relax a bit. So, they issued such, such a card that we only recently had gone [1 garbled] there such, such from [a hospital?] [2-3 garbled] hospital had gone and the issued us a document to go all the way to Berlin. Well, and we then arrived . . . ah . . . [we went to Berlin?] nearly Passau and found . . . [Definitely not Berlin, but sounds like it.]
  • David Boder: [You found?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Ah, we found [a farmer?].
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [?Some farmers??] and we lived there 7 months already.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: In Prienbach.
  • David Boder: Hm-mmm.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Prienbach-am-Inn, near the Inn.
  • David Boder: So . . . Well and then what happened?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Then on the 8th . . . [1-2 too weak] of September.
  • David Boder: Well, and that's not important. And afterwards?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We arrived here in the camp in Lohengrin.
  • David Boder: Well, how! . . .
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We arrived [2-3 garbled]
  • David Boder: Well, [permit [me]?]. When did they liberate you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I was liberated on 1 May.
  • David Boder: Who liberated you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 blocked by Boder above] the American army had [come?].
  • David Boder: Where?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, there where we live in Prienbach.
  • David Boder: And you were working at [1-2 garbled/blocked by Lukosevicius]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: With a farmer, with a farmer.
  • David Boder: Well, tell me how it was when you were working and then the American army arrived. Did you know there would be freedom?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We knew that [it?] would come, everyone was watching, so they listened [completely would not be or?] or soon the American army will arrive.
  • David Boder: And what did the farmer say?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: The farmer was SA. This there [both speaking at once/several missed] such as us.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, he didn't tell us anything. Nothing, nothing. The policy that [we didn't?] ask [about it from him?], and he didn't tell us anything.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [One thing?] that I didn't know how to speed well in German. Well, so, well I was working there and one Pole was working with this farmer.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, on the first of May we had gone into the woods. We were going back from the woods with a tree and we encountered American tanks on the road itself. So, we ran away from the road and thought they would shoot. Well, there were several soldiers there.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 blocked by Boder, above] of the Germans, they all were scampering about.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: But we [stayed?] and [laughing] were laughing. One American soldier threw [some badges of rank?] from the tank. It was [2-3 garbled] I took.
  • David Boder: Was it wonderful [1-2 garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Ah, I don't know. He [at me?] [2-3 garbled] [for the time being did not?] stand, he threw [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: And did they give you [1-2 garbled] [to eat?]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, we didn't [get anything?] to eat.
  • David Boder: [3-4 garbled] arrived. The just went past [2-3 garbled]?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: They stopped and went around [but they unbound us?] and went around and looked for everything, on, but there were [no cattle?] with the volksturms. The SS soldier was [1-2 garbled] also unorganized.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: So, they scattered [3-4 garbled] further to [the city?] . . .
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: . . . who ended up all in captivity. It was near the city of Braunau. Braunau-Simbach.
  • David Boder: [1 garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It was Simbach [where?] these American tanks [were going?]. Everyone [was identified soon?], many German officer solders went into captivity, they yielded [data?].
  • David Boder: So . . . Well, and then, you, you when right, ah, they sent you here?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [It was?] on the 8th of August.
  • David Boder: 1945?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: 1945.
  • David Boder: And you [both talking and blocking each other at once.]
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Blocked] [I live?] here in the camp.
  • David Boder: And just what do you do? What are you working at?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, I wasn't working right away, nothing [2-3 blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: [Blocked by Lukosevicius, above].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [1-2 garbled] time, and after I go [into the woods?]. Well, I have been sharing this [food?] for half a year.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: And right now I am working too with unloading wood.
  • David Boder: So. For . . . For whom do you load the wood?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: It is for the camp, to bring it here to the camp from the woods, and we unload and stack it.
  • David Boder: So. And what do you intend to do?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Now I?] have finished a driving course, and right now [I have passed the examination?] and I have already turned in everything in the camp.
  • David Boder: So. And what do you intend to do?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I, and, how is it?
  • David Boder: Where do you intend to go? [2-3 garbled] what will be with you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Well, well [where?] [2-3 garbled] [as a result I will go?] there, but if I would like to go either to Argentina or [1 short word garbled].
  • David Boder: Do you have any relatives in South America?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Not in South America, only in Brazil [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: Well, Brazil, that's south. And did you write him?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, haven't written anything.
  • David Boder: Doesn't he know about you?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: He doesn't know about me and I don't know anything. And I don't remember the address.
  • David Boder: And you don't know anything about [your] family, right?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: I don't know anything about [my] family.
  • David Boder: And how many children did you have there?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: Two.
  • David Boder: How old?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: One is now, now 7, a girl, and the boy will be 3 years old.
  • David Boder: So, you have been separated from your family.
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: We have been separated.
  • David Boder: [In English] Ah . . . Well, that's the point on which we conclude the interview with Alfonsas Paulis [sic] at Lohengrinstrasse, the Baltic camp of displaced people, displaced Latvians, Estonians, Lithuanians who are here pending their fate of which most of them don't know. They know only one thing.
  • David Boder: [In Russian] Do you want to return back to Lithuania?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: No, I don't. I know the Soviets well, since I lived under them 2 years and [2-3 weak and garbled], [and so?] right now I can't return. No, not one of us can return right now [2-3 garbled].
  • David Boder: [In English] He feels he cannot go back, he doesn't want to go back. And so, a man at the age of 41 . . .
  • David Boder: [In Russian] Are you 41 years old?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: 33.
  • David Boder: [In English] Ah, a man of 33, of the age of 33 is looking for a new country, a new land and a new anchor. This . . . Ja?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [In Russian] I would like to [say] very strongly I do not want to return, [so that?] I know, that if, if I return, then I will not see my home [all the same?]. But if as soon as the Americans had arrived that I had gone right away, then perhaps yes, but now it's already a year [time I did not go?], so I well know that I would not see home if I would want [blocked by Boder].
  • David Boder: Why wouldn't you see home?
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [Garbled, only word audible is "they shoot"].
  • David Boder: And for what? [In Lithuania you [by no means?] nothing [1 garbled].
  • Vladus Lukosevicius: [No, not everything?], but I know how [the Soviets?] are I know better as the others [sic]. They don't know [the history?].
  • David Boder: So.
  • David Boder: [In English] It is a fear of getting killed, of being displaced, and the fear of others that transmits itself in a group and grows. They don't want to go back, they don't want to go back for their families. This concludes Spool 144, 14- this concludes spool 145 . . . at Lohengrinstrasse in the displaced people's camp, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians. Illinois Institute of Technology wire recording. September the 21st, 1946, in a camp maintained by the UNRRA in some special arrangement of the military government with the Germans. Quite some intricate conditions under which these camps are maintained and of which one has to get rather printed material and dated and to get a interview when someone doesn't know how to ask a question in order to get the proper answer. We are going now over to the Greek Orthodox church to take a part of the services. And tonight we will take the choruses of the Latvians and Lithuanians.
  • Contributors to this text:
  • Transcription : Roy Cochrun
  • English Translation : Roy Cochrun