David P. Boder Interviews Gert Silberbart; August 27, 1946; Genève, Switzerland

  • David Boder: [Knocking sound] [In German] In this direction is shown, you only have to, here, but, eh, come a little closer, eh, there. Say one, two, three. Here.
  • Gert Silberbart: One, two, three.
  • David Boder: Louder?
  • Gert Silberbart: One, two, three.
  • David Boder: Yes, so, now watch, when the light lights up here . . .
  • David Boder: [In English] Geneva, August the 27th, 1946. A recording at the home for displaced boys, predominantly Buchenwald children, who are now being trained for a profession. The interviewee is Gert Silverberg [incorrect], eh, a native of Berlin.
  • David Boder: [In German] So, Gert, tell us again your full name, how old are . . . ?
  • Gert Silberbart: Gert Silberbart.
  • David Boder: Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: Gert Silberbart, and I will be 18 years old this week.
  • David Boder: You will be 18 years old this week. Now, tell us, Gert, when did it start to go bad for you? Because things were bad for you before the war already.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, yes, certainly, but until the year 1938, until the shooting of of this diplomat, in French, in France we did not perceive as much of the Hitler regime, of course, a little, but it was not that much. And then, when this pogrom started on November 8, all Jewish businesses and factories were closed, the Jews were forced to wear their Jewish Stars . . .
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and of course that attracted attention and the Hitler Youth and all the other simple Nazis, they used that and it happened often that we were attacked in the street.
  • David Boder: So, now, tell us again, Gert, who was in your family, how many were there in your family?
  • Gert Silberbart: We were five at first, but my brother died before the war of diphteria, so that only four of us were left, my father, my mother, my little sister, and I.
  • David Boder: Yes. And, eh, what was your father's profession?
  • Gert Silberbart: My father had a large clothing factory which he then had to sell . . . [noise]
  • David Boder: So, eh, you say, the difficulties began when [vom] Rath was murdered by Grünspan in Paris, right . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes. Yes.
  • David Boder: Do you have any idea what happened after that?
  • Gert Silberbart: We had no idea of that, when the whole story broke we were already in the concentration camp and had no opportunity to read any papers, [or] to get an idea what was going on out there.
  • David Boder: Yes. So, eh, one has, you say, the pogroms started . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: What kind of pogroms were they, could you describe them if you can remember?
  • Gert Silberbart: Well, I can describe in general . . .
  • David Boder: Well, describe it in detail, and in, eh, in detail, you know . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Ok.
  • David Boder: So.
  • Gert Silberbart: The businesses, the display windows were smashed that night and in the following nights, by stones, and often caricatures were put on the windows. Jewish apartments were broken into and many Jews were harrassed in the street.
  • David Boder: Yes. [knock] Now, you were just 10 years old, right?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was 10 years old back then, yes.
  • David Boder: And how have you—what happened to you and your family?
  • Gert Silberbart: Well, a short time after that, our schools were closed for a while . . .
  • David Boder: Which, what do you mean with our schools?
  • Gert Silberbart: The Jewish schools, that pupils attended together in Berlin
  • David Boder: So the—yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: And we dared not to go into the street because we did not want to risk to be attacked and beaten by the Hitler youth gangs, and also, hardly any Jew dared to cross the street in the days following this event.
  • David Boder: Yes. And?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was pretty much it, what we . . .
  • David Boder: Yes, and what happened to your father, because, with the business of your father?
  • Gert Silberbart: My father was immediately forced to sell his business.
  • David Boder: To whom?
  • Gert Silberbart: To an Aryan, to a client.
  • David Boder: Yes. Did he, did he pay you at least?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, of course not the adequate amount which he would have, would have yielded under normal circumstances, but he was paid a certain sum.
  • David Boder: Yes—and this he could dispose of, or did he have to . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Not either, instead one had to have it transferred to the bank, to the bank, and then could only take out a small amount each month.
  • David Boder: Yes, and then, what happened to the family?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then, we were all deported to Auschwitz, in February of '43, we were all deported to Ausschwitz.
  • David Boder: Where is Auschwitz, where is that situated anyway?
  • Gert Silberbart: Auschwitz is in Upper Silesia, the Polish little town of Oświęcim. So, there, the largest concentration camp was built shortly after the Germans marched in.
  • David Boder: Aha, so it was Poland before?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, yes.
  • David Boder: And then, after the Germans marched in, there was a concentration camp built there, right . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Now, how—was the whole family sent to Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, we came, up until Auschwitz we were all together.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and [then] we were separated. My mother, my father and my little sister [noise] went, what I assume, straight for the gas chambers, while I, as the youngest, was meant to be among the living because I could work, was able to work.
  • David Boder: Now wait a little. Where were—you were arrested in Berlin. Where were you then, from your home, how did you go to Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: When you went?
  • Gert Silberbart: We were arrested by the Gestapo on the night of the 7th to the 8th of March 1943 at our apartment directly in Berlin, and went directly to a camp in Berlin. We stayed there until . . .
  • David Boder: Where was that camp?
  • Gert Silberbart: In Berlin, in the Große Hamburger Straße, that was a former school where all furniture had been removed and matresses had been put in the rooms.
  • David Boder: Yes, and the whole family was together?
  • Gert Silberbart: There we were still together.
  • David Boder: Men, women and children together?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, the whole families were not separated yet.
  • David Boder: Yes. And then?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then, on the next morning, we were, we received something to eat, and then we were loaded into moving vans, and transported to the station [noise] near Berlin.
  • David Boder: So, now tell me, what things were you allowed to take along?
  • Gert Silberbart: We were allowed to take along what we wanted, but at the arrival in Auschwitz everything was taken from us, except for the . . .
  • David Boder: Yes, and what happened to the apartment?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, we were, and that, I don't know anymore, I only know that the Gestapo men put a Gestapo seal on after we left the apartment so that nobody was allowed to enter.
  • David Boder: Aha. Now, and so, after so, eh—how many days did the train take to Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Three days.
  • David Boder: In what kind of car did you ride?
  • Gert Silberbart: In a cattle car, with eighty men in a cattle car, with—
  • David Boder: The family together?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, women, children, men, all together.
  • David Boder: So, were you with your brother?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, with my little sister and with my parents together.
  • David Boder: With your parents together.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: And, eh, did the train, did the train stop?
  • Gert Silberbart: The train stopped often along the way, but that had no impact on us. It was just that something stopped, but the cars were not opened until we came to Auschwitz. They were—and even there we stood for half an hour untill the SS men with the . . .
  • David Boder: So how were you using toilets then, with, eh, eh . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Well, there were buckets, buckets put in the cars, that we could then empty to the outside through little cracks . . .
  • David Boder: Yes. And, eh, was there drinking water . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: We were supplied one bucket but that hardly lasted for one day.
  • David Boder: And how did one drink the water?
  • Gert Silberbart: It was drunken with cups or any other containers that people had along . . .
  • David Boder: Yes. Now, and, eh, tell me how, what happened in the first two hours after the train had arrived in Auschwitz.
  • Gert Silberbart: We were all, we were all unloaded from the car, and immediately a loud voice called: women, men, women to the left, men to the right. I stood with the men, in the dark, I had, we had arrived late in the evening, and it was already very dark, beginning of March, it was dark, and I lost track of father and mother, and saw no member of my family anymore.
  • David Boder: So, you are saying that immediately, immediately you did not see your father anymore, either . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: No, I did not see any member of my family anymore.
  • David Boder: And you were how old?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was then 14 years old.
  • David Boder: 14 years, that was in which year?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was in the beginning of '43.
  • David Boder: Now, wait—you say the difficulties began in '38.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Where were you from '38 to '43?
  • Gert Silberbart: From '38 to '43 I was still in Berlin, I visited school until the year '41, until they were forced to close.
  • David Boder: Yes. And what did your father do during this time?
  • Gert Silberbart: My father was not able to work at all during this time, and was later forced into a factory.
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . where he had to work until his evacuation.
  • David Boder: So when he worked in the factory, did he come home every day?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . he came home every day?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . so between '38 and '42 you were still living in Berlin, right?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . and you went to school until '42?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, until '41.
  • David Boder: Until '41.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: And what did you do in the rest of the time where you could not attend school?
  • Gert Silberbart: There I worked in kitchens and also in, eh, my friend who was a Mischling [literally "cross-breed" in German; a person with mixed Jewish ancestry], his father was a pharmacist, who took me into his lab—
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . where I could receive a little training.
  • David Boder: Was that, eh, allowed?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was not allowed, that was illegal. But because he was a good friend of mine, it did not become public.
  • David Boder: Yes. And then you learned a little bit of pharmacy, right?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: And, eh, then, eh, were, eh—the people came and you were sent to the concentration camp in Auschwitz in '42—in '43 '43 . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, yes.
  • David Boder: What, eh, did they give you any reasons as to what?
  • Gert Silberbart: None, after all, we were pretty much the last ones, we were lucky to be among the last, and we knew already that thousands had gone there before us.
  • David Boder: Aha. And then you . . . how old was your little sister?
  • Gert Silberbart: My little sister was eight years back then.
  • David Boder: Aha. And you were, eh, 14 years old.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: And you assembled with the men?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Didn't your father place himself with the men?
  • Gert Silberbart: Probably, I did not see him anymore, we were called up, each one had to loudly state his profession and age, and, eh, at the cue of the SS Commander one had to line up to the right or to the left, the right meant the gas chambers, the left meant the living.
  • David Boder: And what profession did you state?
  • Gert Silberbart: I gave no profession, just student. But because I looked pretty athletic then, I looked fit for work, and I lined up with the living.
  • David Boder: Yes. And then, what happened afterwards in, how . . . [?]
  • Gert Silberbart: Then we were led to a disinfection . . .
  • David Boder: Was that in Birkenau or in Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Directly in Auschwitz, where we arrived.
  • David Boder: Yes—and where were the crematoriums?
  • Gert Silberbart: The crematoriums were in Birkenau, which I had not yet seen at that time.
  • David Boder: Aha. Could you see Birkenau from Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: We saw a big fire, but we did not know what that meant. Only later it became clear to us that those were the gas furnaces, the crematoriums of Birkenau. [noise]
  • David Boder: Aha. But you could see the fires in Birkenau from Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, very well.
  • David Boder: Yes. Well? And then, what happened during the night?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then we were led into a sub-camp of Auschwitz, the labor camp of Buna . . .
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: There we were all stripped, disinfected, and all that we had on us was taken from us. We were bathed, our hair was cut, and we were dressed in prisoner suits.
  • David Boder: Who cut your hair and how was that done?
  • Gert Silberbart: Already long—prisoners who had been in the concentration camp for a long time, whose job it was to function as [?].
  • David Boder: And what did they use, scissors, or, or . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Regular, simple regular hair cutting devices, manually operated.
  • David Boder: Was—by hand?
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . hand operated, hair cutting devices.
  • David Boder: So hand hair cutting machines.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Yes. And your hair was cut off your head?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, everywhere where we had hair.
  • David Boder: Yes. And then, what was done then?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then we came into the barracks, our names and data were taken, our age, then we were put into the single booths . . . .
  • David Boder: How, what did you give as your age?
  • Gert Silberbart: My real age, 14 years.
  • David Boder: Yes. And?
  • Gert Silberbart: We slept until five, in the morning at five o'clock we received a little coffee, a piece of bread, and we had to line up in front of the block where we were drilled in this standing at attention and all the steps, the marching steps. And then . . .
  • David Boder: In what way?
  • Gert Silberbart: That differed. We had to line up in five rows which still went very well, then we exercised right turns and left turns, then marching, which did not go so well in the beginning, but that was was taught to us via rifle butt hits.
  • David Boder: Yes, and . . . Eh, you want to eat?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: A little to eat?
  • David Boder: So, before the meal, we left off where you told us how you were taught to march. Now go on.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, and then came a member of the Arbeitsdienst [Labor Service] whose task it was to learn about our professions and in which way we could be best put to work.
  • David Boder: Was that an inmate?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was also an inmate who had been in the concentration camp for a long time . . .
  • David Boder: Yes, was that a Jew?
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and who was entrusted by the SS leadership—no, that was not a Jew. That was a German political prisoner.
  • David Boder: Yes. Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: And, since I did not have a profession, I was put into a commando, into a work detail where I had to haul cement all day, and unload iron from train cars, and that was pretty hard for me at 14 years, to carry sacks of 50 kilos, without a break, a boy of 14 years, I mean, I was not used to that, I had a little hard time with that.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: But then I got used to it, had to get used to it.
  • David Boder: Well, and?
  • Gert Silberbart: Well, and so I just worked from six o'clock in the morning until six, seven o'clock in the afternoon, six or seven days a week, sometimes it occurred that we had off on Sunday, but that did not depend on us, or on our output, but on the, on the SS guards who just simply did not want to go out there with us on Sundays, and guard us, and who wanted to stay in the camp themselves, or outside the camp in their barracks.
  • David Boder: So, what did you do then on Sundays?
  • Gert Silberbart: On Sundays we did not have peace, either, then it was lice checks, what was, which was pretty unpleasant for us, but that was for the benfit of our health, because there were many among us who attracted lice after a short while, and they surely would have infected all of us, and we, many of us, would have fallen prey to the bugs if there had not been those lice checks.
  • David Boder: So describe the lice checks.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, we just all had to strip naked, and one after the other had to go in front of the doctor who examined us thoroughly whether we had lice, one after the other.
  • David Boder: Yes, but were there not lice in the clothes?
  • Gert Silberbart: The clothes were examined, too.
  • David Boder: Now, and if you had lice, then what?
  • Gert Silberbart: We were immediately led into the disinfection, we were totally disinfected, examined if we showed any signs of typhoid fever, and if not, we were put back into the block.
  • David Boder: And if one showed all, if one showed any signs or symptoms of typhoid fever, then . . . ?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then they stayed in the sick building, were examined, and if the case was so bad already that they could not be healed in the camp they came into the main camp in Auschwitz where the sick block was better equipped, and where they had more possibilities to closer examine the patient.
  • David Boder: And? If he had typhoid fever?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then he was put into a special barrack, received to eat like all the others, and if he healed it was good, and he was sent back to work, if not, well, then he just died.
  • David Boder: Yes. Well? So, eh, that was on Sundays . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . and how long did that take? That was in '43?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was in the year '43.
  • David Boder: Summer, winter?
  • Gert Silberbart: Beginning of '43, March, April, May.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Then I became sick, had a 40°C [104° Fahrenheit] fever, went directly into the Krankenbau [sick bay] into the K, the KB as it was called, but they could not . . .
  • David Boder: KB, Krankenbau?
  • Gert Silberbart: KB, Krankenbau.
  • David Boder: Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: But they could not determine what I had, my fever was persistent, and they sent me in an ambulance to the Auschwitz main camp.
  • David Boder: Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: There I was led into the large Krankenbau, my temperature was taken, and I had something above 40°C again. I was, one looked into my throat but nothing could be diagnosed. Then they put me under an ice-cold shower which was pretty hard for me, to stay under there, but I had to, and that shower just worked wonders. The next day I had normal temperatures already, and I was immediately sent to another camp.
  • David Boder: How long were you under the shower?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was under the shower for about fifteen minutes.
  • David Boder: Who ordered that?
  • Gert Silberbart: That is, that was no order, every, every patient that came from another camp was immediately disinfected and put under a cold shower, and apparently they had made the experience that this cold shower massively reduced the fever, and so they used it, like a regular procedure . . .
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . to put every patient under a shower.
  • David Boder: And the fever was down the next day?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, of course I was very weakened, but that did not concern them, the main thing was that the thermometer showed 36°C [96.8°F], and I was sent to work right away.
  • David Boder: Yes. Now, and then what did you work again?
  • Gert Silberbart: There I worked . . .
  • David Boder: . . . and how did the work go?
  • Gert Silberbart: There I worked in similar commandos, as amasonry or metal worker, just how I was assigned. There was a part of a, lack of personnel on this commando, on another day people were needed on that detail, so that from one day to the next we were assigned very different tasks.
  • David Boder: Yes, and?
  • Gert Silberbart: I stayed there until the end of '44. Until the . . .
  • David Boder: An how did it go with the work , was the treatment more or less good?
  • Gert Silberbart: The treatment . . . of course, we were naturally beaten very heavily, but that is . . .
  • David Boder: Why is that so natural?
  • Gert Silberbart: That is is self-understood, I think . . . I think that this is well known enough from books and reports and films that I don't even hve to mention it. Because the beatings were simply—part of the concentration camp, just as a typewriter belongs in an office.
  • David Boder: Who beat you the most?
  • Gert Silberbart: The capos as well as the SS men.
  • David Boder: How, who were the capos? Please describe them.
  • Gert Silberbart: Capos were inmates who had been in the KZ for years, who were well known by the SS, and who received from the SS,or from Arbeitsdienst, the Labor Service of the SS, a yellow armband with the inscription KAPO on it, and those had then the resp—, were responsible for the daily job perfomance.
  • David Boder: What is the, eh, the origin of the word "capo"? Why did the Germans use that?
  • Gert Silberbart: Nobody knows that. That is not known even today.
  • David Boder: Capos in Latin means head or leader or . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Could be that it comes from there.
  • David Boder: Tell me, have you heard the word Musulmann?
  • Gert Silberbart: Certainly, as Muselmänner were those described who were emaciated, very emaciated through the hard labor, and who were weakened, and with those Muselmänner, those were those who had to march through the gate into the camp after the work was finished, who had to strip and then went in front of the camp doctor. This Lagerarzt [camp physician] then decided, again through a cue with this hand to the left or the right, [the people] to the left went to the gas chambers, those one the right remained at work,.
  • David Boder: Yes, what does that mean, they went to the gas chambers?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were immediately rounded up by the SS . . .
  • David Boder: Was there not a great outcry?
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . certainly there was a lot of outcry because the people all knew where they went. It was, it was not the first time that such situations occurred. They came into a block, all together under heavy SS guard, and then usually they were loaded in cars the next day and went to the gas chambers.
  • David Boder: You say there was a lot of crying.
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course, the people were screaming and praying. I mean, a man who knows the he will be gassed in two hours, three hours, is not human anymore, is frantically desperate, you know?
  • David Boder: Now, did the pleading help sometimes?
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course it did not help. That was something the people knew, too, but in that moment, when it is there, you cannot think logically anymore, you are not yourself anymore.
  • David Boder: Have you yourself seen and heard this?
  • Gert Silberbart: I have seen and heard it myself.
  • David Boder: How come that you came through?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was just . . . I was just still strong enough to work.
  • David Boder: Aha. Now, so, how long did that last in Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: I lived there until the end of '44, until about September.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Then one day came a commission of a German enterprise, Siemens . . . you have heard of it . . .
  • David Boder: Siemens and Halske, or?
  • Gert Silberbart: Siemens Schuckert.
  • David Boder: Siemens and Schuckert, yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: And one day before this commission came, there was the order that all youths should stay in camp.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: So we stayed in the camp. This commission came. We were introduced to the commission, they asked us some questions, questioned us in regards to our schooling, and they said that they needed trainee mechanics.
  • David Boder: So, those were not the capos anymore or the SS.
  • Gert Silberbart: No, those were civilians.
  • David Boder: Civilians. Were they polite?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were very polite to us. They used a totally unaccustomed tone.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Something we were never used before, neither from the SS people nor from the capos.
  • David Boder: Yes. And they talked friendly to you?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were pretty friendly with us.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: They asked us different things regarding our origin and our schooling . . .
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . asked us several questions and then selected twenty-five of us who were supposed to join their company as trainee mechanics.
  • David Boder: And you were among them.
  • Gert Silberbart: And I was among them.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: From that day on we did not have to go to work anymore, came into a quarantine block, where we stayed about eight days, and were then picked up by a car, also by SS men, and came into a small camp that had just been established in the vicinity of Auschwitz.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: There we went through disinfection again, were dressed again, the hair was cut that had . . .
  • David Boder: . . . as before . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . as before, and then we began work outside, first with masonry work, because the factory was not entirely finished yet, so we had to do exterior work, until the factory was finally completed. Machines were installed, and we slowly began our mechanic work.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: At first, we were assigned some jobs, but later they needed us again more for the exterior work, the masonry, hauling sand and so on, so that we did not really feel a difference between Auschwitz and this smaller camp. At least we had a little more peace, we were all in all only 150 inmates, only, except for the commando, there were some SS guards, so that we perceived it as very agreeable to be with so few people.
  • David Boder: Has the, was the treatment better?
  • Gert Silberbart: The treatment was a little better, simply because one single commando leader could not be at all places, so we took advantage of that, those times where he was at the other end of the camp to relax a little bit.
  • David Boder: And were there no capos?
  • Gert Silberbart: There was a capo, but he was pretty nice, because he himself did not have to be so afraid of the commando leader, after all, the capo,in Auschwitz also just did [it] out of fear, because after all they were punished if the job performance was not sufficient.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course they also tried to kiss up to the SS people, they received cigarettes, so that they did not care about one beating more or less.
  • David Boder: Yes. Now, and so you worked at Siemens and Schuckert?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: How long did that last?
  • Gert Silberbart: There I worked until the end of the year 1944, beginning of '45, until January. Then when the Russians slowly advanced in the East, the situation became critical, and we marched from, from this camp, Bobrek was the name, to Buna, where I had been before, all in the beginning . . .
  • David Boder: Buna?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: So Bobrek was the Außenlager [subcamp]?
  • Gert Silberbart: That, that camp was Bobrek.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Then I came back to camp Buna where I had been interned in the beginning of '43. There we stayed for about three hours, the entire Buna camp was evacuated, and we marched from Buna directly to Buchenwald.
  • David Boder: How far was that and how long did the march last?
  • Gert Silberbart: I can't, I really cannot give you the distance, I really don't know.
  • David Boder: So Buna is close to Auschwitz?
  • Gert Silberbart: Buna is by Auschwitz, one kilometer away from Auschwitz.
  • David Boder: So . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Buchenwald is in Thuringia.
  • David Boder: And, eh, so Buna is, Auschwitz is next to Breslau approximately . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: No, no, Auschwitz is much, much further than Breslau, Breslau is already the German Upper Silesia. . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . while Auschwitz is in Poland.
  • David Boder: Yes, so Auschwitz, and then it went to Thuringia, right?
  • Gert Silberbart: Then it was on to Thuringia.
  • David Boder: Yes, now?
  • Gert Silberbart: At first we walked from Buna approximately fifty kilometers, until we reached a barn in Nikolai where we rested for the first time for some hours.
  • David Boder: What do you mean, you walked?
  • Gert Silberbart: We, we marched.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Without pause, fifty kilometer.
  • David Boder: . . . kilometer . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . which of course was very hard for us in our wooden shoes, in our thin clothes, and through the snow, and the SS men drove us.
  • David Boder: Was it not fast to walk for the SS men also?
  • Gert Silberbart: Relatively many SS men got weak and could not keep up.
  • David Boder: What happened to them?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were loaded into an ambulance and were brought to the military hospital.
  • David Boder: Yes. And, eh, what happened to the prisoners who could not keep up anymore?
  • Gert Silberbart: The prisoners who could not keep up anymore, just broke ranks and received the Gnadenschuss [coup de grace], and just stayed there, and were then later picked up by a car that collected all corpses and brought them to the crematorium.
  • David Boder: A Gnadenschuss? Now?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, one can call that a Gnadenschuss.
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, and then, after we had the first part behind us, that lasted about eight hours in Nikolai, we continued to march on to Gleiwitz. In Gleiwitz was also such a concentration camp which however had been cleared in the meantime. We stayed there for one night.
  • David Boder: Slower, a little slower, please, yes? Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course, the camp was too small to absorb all the prisoners from Buna and Bobrek . . .
  • David Boder: How many men were there approximately, you think?
  • Gert Silberbart: There were approximately 40,000 to 45,000 men, I don't know, however, if my estimate is correct, I really don't know.
  • David Boder: Oh well—so?
  • Gert Silberbart: Hundreds had already been left on the way . . .
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: Anyway, a part of the ca—, a part . . .
  • David Boder: Now, when the bodies were left there, did one leave them their clothes, or have other . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: They were left like that beause there was simply no time to take anything from them, because so, these people who were left there they were breaking rank, and anyone who strayed from the ranks was shot for attempted flight. So nobody had the opportunity to get out of the line and take clothes from the dead.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: We stayed in this camp Gleiwitz over night and the following day. Many preferred to sleep outside at night because there was not enough space in the camp for us all.
  • David Boder: How was it with food?
  • Gert Silberbart: As provisions we received shortly before our departure to Buchenwald, a small piece of bread and a, approximately fifty grams of sausage.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: So in the evening of the following day we were loaded on train cars, we, some of the cars were loaded with 150 to 200 men.
  • David Boder: Was there anything to eat?
  • Gert Silberbart: One was—one could eat, we did not ask in such a situation anymore what was to to eat and what was not eatable, we ate a lot, where nowadays , where we nowadays would be disgusted.
  • David Boder: For instance?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, simply what we could grab from trash cans in the street. Potatos, rotten carrots, and so on, beet roots.
  • David Boder: Yes, during the, during the walk. Now tell me, when you marched, where did, did you not pass cities or villages?
  • Gert Silberbart: We mostly marched through the countryside. Only some farmers saw us. Of course, we also passed smaller cities and villages. The people just looked on, but seeing the SS they got afraid and they retreated into their homes.
  • David Boder: Yes, and you had no opportunity to talk to the people?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, never.
  • David Boder: So, go on.
  • Gert Silberbart: And so we were loaded onto the cars, the train started moving, and it was horrible at first. We hat no opportunity to sit down in there, horrible, we were 150 men, one pressed to the other.
  • David Boder: Closed cars?
  • Gert Silberbart: Open cars. Open on the top.
  • David Boder: Oh, those were the open cars?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . and it was in the winter?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was in the winter.
  • David Boder: Yes, no carry on.
  • Gert Silberbart: We only had our thin clothing, and one can almost say, people died by the hour.
  • David Boder: From what?
  • Gert Silberbart: From the cold—, from cold, from hunger, from exhaustion, it all came together after all. The dead were then thrown from the car. Some received a shot, some did not, and thus we had more and more space in the car. It is realy terrible to have to say it that way, but we did not even perceive it as so bad if someone died, we were so down and out that the instinct of self-preservation prevailed for each of us—and we hardly bothered about the fate of the others.
  • David Boder: Were there only men or also women?
  • Gert Silberbart: It was only men.
  • David Boder: Yes, and then?
  • Gert Silberbart: And there remained, from our car of 150 men, only 80 who arrived in Buchenwald. In Buchenwald we were unloaded, totally exhausted, some could not even walk anymore, and the we walked to the camp.
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • David Boder: Which was approximately one kilometer away from the ramp.
  • David Boder: From the train.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Yes, and then?
  • Gert Silberbart: There we were . . . we came first, we arrived late at twelve o'clock at night, then we came in a block, 2,000 men in one block, But we were deadly tired and exhausted. So we just slept wherever one put us or where we stood. The next morning we were disinfected, we almost all had lice . . . . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . And we received new clothes, our hair was shorn, and we came to the so-called small camp [Kleine Lager] which was, which consisted of about ten blocks that were formerly horse barracks, where approximately 2,000 men had room, according to the planning [?] of the Germans . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and there we stayed approximately, there I stayed approximately one month, two, one an a half months. There we had relatively little [to do] we also did not receive anything to eat, and that, these hours . . . the time passed so slowly . . . that was truly terrible.
  • David Boder: Didn't you work?
  • Gert Silberbart: We did, yes, sometimes we were assigned as helpers in the quarry, but er wer, we were not capable of working. We could not lift a little stone of three, four kilos anymore.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: We were so exhausted throught the whole journey and the last weeks, we were not even capable of working.
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: These times where we did not work, did not make us stronger, on the contrary, it made us weaker because the whole day long we were sent out into the cold, we only had a thin suit, like a pajama, a pair of wooden shoes, no socks, and so we stayed the whole long day in a small fenced area in front of the block. We were cold, some had frostbite, frost on the fingers, and sometimes that became infected, an abscess, and many died of it.
  • David Boder: Now, was that a youth block?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, that was not a youth block, that was everybody together.
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, and then after approximately one and a half months I came . . . I came into the large camp [Große Lager] . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . There I was put into a commando that had to to clean-up work in the city of Weimar, approximately seven kilometers from Buchenwald. Regarding the work it was much worse in Buchenwald, much worse, we sometimes had to be at the roll call at three or four o'clock in the morning, and we sometimes worked until seven or eight, sometimes nine o'clock in the evening in the city.
  • David Boder: Yes, in what city, in Weimar?
  • Gert Silberbart: In the city of Weimar, yes.
  • David Boder: Yes. What did you work there?
  • Gert Silberbart: The destroyed houses that were destroyed through air attacks and air mines, we had to discard the debris and build them up again.
  • David Boder: How did that look. Was Weimer heavily bombed?
  • Gert Silberbart: Weimar was pretty heavily detroyed.
  • David Boder: And, eh, under the debris, did you find bodies?
  • Gert Silberbart: We seldom found bodies. We had . . . we searched for food under the rubble, but we often found very little.
  • David Boder: You found little. Did you sometimes find valuables?
  • Gert Silberbart: Never.
  • David Boder: Now go on. Were you able to take along what you found?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, everyone was searched at the entrance to the camp, after the deployment we were searched to the bones so that nothing could be brought inside the camp.
  • David Boder: Well?
  • Gert Silberbart: I worked there until March of '43 . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . until March of '45, I meant. And then the Americans advanced slowly. In the end when the Americans were already in Erfurt . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . we did not go out anymore, the danger was too great. The camp commander, an SS Obersturmführer had said before we should not be afraid, we should not revolt. He would quietly hand us over to the Americans.
  • David Boder: That is what the camp commander said?
  • Gert Silberbart: That is what the camp commander said. We, of course we did not believe him.
  • David Boder: And you think he said the truth?
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course, he did not say the truth, we saw that a couple days later when all Jews were called to a roll call.
  • David Boder: Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course, no Jew came, no Jew was to be seen at the assembly place, so that the SS were forced to move into the camp to force the Jews on to the assembly area with rifle butt beatings. From there they were transported out of the camp. Under SS guard they started their march.
  • David Boder: Were you among them?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, I was not among them. If I had been among them I would not have been . . .
  • David Boder: Why not?
  • Gert Silberbart: Because I, I had hidden in several blocks, in basements, partly in the sewers, the canalization, in holes in the sewage system, in attics, in short, in every hideout where I could disappear.
  • David Boder: In holes of the sewage system?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes . . . in the sewer.
  • David Boder: Weren't you dirty there?
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course it was dirty, but I knew, if I left the camp , had to go on the march, that would have been my death.
  • David Boder: Why did you know that?
  • Gert Silberbart: Because I was simply not able to walk two to three kilometers anymore, I was so weakened through the past weeks and months that I could hardly stand upright on my legs.
  • David Boder: Aha, and then?
  • Gert Silberbart: Thus I was hiding for about a week. Constantly there was the call for the Jews to come out ["Juden raus," literally "Jews out"] and when the largest part of the Jews were gone, they went after the Christians. There were daily transports from the camp, so that in the camp that had held 100,000 people a week before, at the point of liberation by the Americans on April 11, there were only 22,000 people left.
  • David Boder: Yes, so, who were the others that were taken?
  • Gert Silberbart: Just . . . the SS took everyone they could get. At the end there was . . .
  • David Boder: Well, couldn't they just arrest everyone? After all, the blocks were open.
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, they could, they just could not get everyone because a large part had hidden in the camp. Then it was just to much for them, they did not have enough guards, enough SS men, who could guard us and send us on the way.
  • David Boder: Yes, and the?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, and then . . .
  • David Boder: Did people try to flee along the way, run away?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, nobody managed to do that.
  • David Boder: Well? And so?
  • Gert Silberbart: And so the Americans came on the 11th, on the 11th of April at four o'clock in the afternoon, and liberated us.
  • David Boder: Now, and how was that. Do you want to tell us about the last three days.
  • Gert Silberbart: You want me tell about the last three days before the liberation?
  • David Boder: Yes. Yes.
  • Gert Silberbart: Well, so. I was during all these last three days in basements and sewage holes, I did not eat or drink during these days, just always anxiously listened to the cry of Juden raus or when something moved close to me, when I heard a sound, I winced.
  • David Boder: So you say you did not really eat during the three days?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes. That was not, that was not the first time. I had already hungered for seven days, Nothing to eat and nothing to drink.
  • David Boder: Well. Where, when did you hunger for seven days without food or drink?
  • Gert Silberbart: During the first time in Buchenwald.
  • David Boder: Why, you did not receive anything to eat?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, we did not get anything to eat.
  • David Boder: But water was there.
  • Gert Silberbart: Water was there.
  • David Boder: So you did drink.
  • Gert Silberbart: Well. If you want to consider latrine water as a beverage . . .
  • David Boder: Why was that waste water . . . wasn't there clean water . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: No, we could not reach, we could not get to the clean water.
  • David Boder: And what is that, what do you mean, latrine waste water . . . did you have a water flush in the latrine?
  • Gert Silberbart: It was just dirty water, rusty water, filthy water that came from some pipe, that was then . . .
  • David Boder: And that you drank.
  • Gert Silberbart: We drank that.
  • David Boder: Well?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, now . . .
  • David Boder: From what . . . what sense did it make to not allow you to get water . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: That I cannot tell you. There you should ask the people who forbade us . . .
  • David Boder: I mean . . . Didn't you say something?
  • Gert Silberbart: We did not say anything. We took it as something self-understood. We were used to such things, such harrassments.
  • David Boder: Aha. Now, and then?
  • Gert Silberbart: And so I lived in sewage holes for the last three days and . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: And attics and basements and so on . . .
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: Until I heard jubilation cries on April 11th in the afternoon, and heard American music from the loud speakers, and then came out and we embraced each other crying . . .
  • David Boder: So American music from the radios . . . ?
  • Gert Silberbart: It was like this. In the room fo the camp commander outside the camp there was a big . . . microphone . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and in each block of the camp . . .
  • David Boder: . . . a loudspeaker.
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . a loudspeaker.
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and this radio in the commander's room played American music. The inmates stood up immediately . . .
  • David Boder: Why were, eh . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: He had a simple radio. He had probably listened to this American music the whole time . . .
  • David Boder: Aha . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . but it was not transferred to the loudspeakers . . .
  • David Boder: No, was not broadcast . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: . . . so they just tuned in the American station?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes . . .
  • David Boder: Tuned in and one heard American music?
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . immediately heard American music. And the the first Americans, there were speeches over the loudspeakers. We were . . . we just knew we were free.
  • David Boder: And?
  • Gert Silberbart: We just could not grasp it in the first hours. Yes, And then we embraced crying, it is hard to describe the last, the first hours after the liberation . . .
  • David Boder: Try it!
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, when I came up I saw some comrades again that I had known for a long time, and we embraced, and we could not fathom that we were free, but we were so exhausted from the last days that we had not eaten, in short, we were exhausted. The bad thing was also that the Germans in their retreat had destroyed the water pipeline so that there was no water in the whole camp and we almost died of thirst.
  • David Boder: [In English] This concludes Spool, this concludes Spool 82 reported by Gert eh, by Gert Silbert . . . eh, Silbert, is that the name?
  • Gert Silberbart: Silberbart . . .
  • David Boder: Silberbart and we are going over to Spool 83. Geneva, August the 27th, 1946. Illinois Institute of Technology recording.
  • David Boder: [In German] You heard American music . . . oh, one moment . . .
  • David Boder: [In English] This is Spool 83, a continuation of 84, eh . . . 82, Gert Silberbart concluding his report.
  • David Boder: [In German] So you said, you heard American music amerikanische music . . . now go on?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, so we came out of our hiding, and were happy about our new freedom, many actually collapsed on this occasion . . .
  • David Boder: Did you see some Americans, too?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, we immediately saw American tanks that crushed the barbed wire and the electrical fences. At once you saw white flags on the roofs, and there was jubilation and laughing all over the camp.
  • David Boder: Who erected the white flags?
  • Gert Silberbart: Those were simple bed sheets . . .
  • David Boder: Yes, but who? The, eh, have you—
  • Gert Silberbart: Prisoners, from us, no, no, yes . . .
  • David Boder: Now, the prisoners did not have to surrender. What did the white flags mean?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, the white flags meant simply, that we were together with the Americans, that we . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . not that they would use their weapons, or shoot, or what . . .
  • David Boder: Yes, and what happened to the capos?
  • Gert Silberbart: The capos were, a part of the capos who had a bad conscience, who had collaborated with the SS men during all these times, fled with the SS men who fled in the last minute.
  • David Boder: The Jews . . . were they Jewish capos?
  • Gert Silberbart: I think, there were no Jewish capos in Buchenwald, I can say that.
  • David Boder: Aha, yes. And?
  • Gert Silberbart: Just these, eh, German capos, dangerous, hardened, professional criminals, and so . . .
  • David Boder: Those fled with the SS men. Now . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: The capos, who had a good conscience, who had been behaving fair towards their fellow prisoners, they stayed with us and also celebrated their freedom.
  • David Boder: Yes. Now. Eh—did one catch some SS men? Did one . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: Very many were still caught on the way because . . . many inmates took eh, plundered right away these weapons arsenals, the arsenals of the SS . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and armed themselves and those strong enough ran after the SS, together with the Americans. Quite a few were still arrested.
  • David Boder: And what was done to them?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were first brought into the camp, and held in a block. They were disarmed and everything taken from them. Then, several days later, they were transported by the Americans, by the military, into Germany.
  • David Boder: Did you have the opportunity to talk to the SS?
  • Gert Silberbart: I did not have the opportunity myself because the whole time I was to weak to just go few steps out.
  • David Boder: Well.
  • Gert Silberbart: I had to strenthen myself first.
  • David Boder: But others did?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes, but I just rested. Others had the opportunity to talk to the SS men. Many also took revenge.
  • David Boder: In what form?
  • Gert Silberbart: Simply by harrassing them.
  • David Boder: Yes. Did the Americanse defend or protect the SS in any form?
  • Gert Silberbart: Neither defended nor protected them. They took—in the first days you saw rather few Americans in our camp because the camp was still in the front line, the whole area. Only later when the front had moved further into Germany, came a special camp commando of the U.S. Army, a great number of personnel, who took over the order of the camp. Also many tankers came that brought water into the camp. Because it took about a a week and a half until the water pipeline was restored.
  • David Boder: Aha. Now tell me, there were so many inmates, how come that the SS was even left alive?
  • Gert Silberbart: They were left alive. Because if we would not have left them live, the we would, we would not have been much different than the Germans. So we had to, we wanted to, after all, be a good example, if not by good example, but we should not have done to them what they did to us, then we would have been just the same.
  • David Boder: That was the philosophy?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was not the philosophy, that is my opinion. Surely many others had another opinion. But overall that was the mindset in the camp.
  • David Boder: Is it true, that inmates hanged SS men in Buchenwald?
  • Gert Silberbart: Inmates hanged SS men?
  • David Boder: Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: That happened twice as far as I know.
  • David Boder: Yes. When?
  • Gert Silberbart: That was then—after the liberation.
  • David Boder: Yes?
  • Gert Silberbart: Those were indeed SS men who had just acted especially atrociously towards the inmates. But I only heard of it so I cannot tell more details about it.
  • David Boder: You did not see that yourself?
  • Gert Silberbart: No.
  • David Boder: No. Now, and how did it go with food and meals?
  • Gert Silberbart: Of course, the food improved immediately and immensely. Many were not used to the good fare of the American military, in fact, no one was . . .
  • David Boder: Yes .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . many suffered right away from diarrhea, stomach aches, gastritis. Nobody took well to it. The whole camp suffered from diarrhea. And only later, slowly, slowly, did we get used the the normal diet.
  • David Boder: Now, and how long were you then in Buchenwald?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was then in Buchenwald until the beginning of June 1945, when many youths had to had to sign up through the U.N. [?] and the transports went to Switzerland, and I was among them. And so I came to Switzerland.
  • David Boder: You chose Switzerland?
  • Gert Silberbart: Yes.
  • David Boder: Have you tried to find your family or anybody?
  • Gert Silberbart: I already did enough research. But I have no hope that anyone of them stayed alive. I only found my aunt and my uncle in Chile again who had emigrated there before—during the war.
  • David Boder: What are their names?
  • Gert Silberbart: Dahlinger.
  • David Boder: Dahlinger. And how did you find them? Did you write them, and did they answer?
  • Gert Silberbart: I did research through the Red Cross and several other organizations, and one, then one message came from them. And in September of last year I had the first message from them.
  • David Boder: Aha. And, eh, what are you doing now?
  • Gert Silberbart: Momentarily I am learning to be a dental technician in a laboratory of the OSE and besides I am taking evening classes at the commercial school, learning English, French, and . . .
  • David Boder: What commercial school?
  • Gert Silberbart: The Institute Commercial here in Bern.
  • David Boder: Is that a private school?
  • Gert Silberbart: No, that is a state school.
  • David Boder: And you are allowed to attend the -?
  • Gert Silberbart: I was allowed to attend the school, the OSE that also finances dental technician training, allowed me to attend this course and finances this also.
  • David Boder: . . . and finances this course. And how do you get along with your co-students?
  • Gert Silberbart: I, I had, I have not been long in this course, just a couple of days because the winter semester has just begun . . .
  • David Boder: Yes . . .
  • Gert Silberbart: . . . and I did not really have nearer contact with my fellow students yet, but it is going well.
  • David Boder: Aha. Did they know that you, eh, were a former prisoner?
  • Gert Silberbart: I think, I don't know. They did not say anything, anyway.
  • David Boder: And how old are you now?
  • Gert Silberbart: I will be 18.
  • David Boder: And what are your plans? What do you want to do in the future?
  • Gert Silberbart: I am intending to finish the dental technician course and the evening course at the commercial school, and then go to my relatives in Chile and work there as a dental technician.
  • David Boder: Don't you want to study dentistry?
  • Gert Silberbart: I don't think I will have an opportunity to study dentistry because that requires the Maturität [general qualification for university entrance]. I am already too old and . . .
  • David Boder: . . . too old . . . ?
  • Gert Silberbart: Not too old, but I just don't have enough time anymore to prepare for that.
  • David Boder: Well now, you are just a single person. You could maybe earn some money and work towards the Maturität, no?
  • Gert Silberbart: I never had an opportunity to earn something, and I would not know as what or how.
  • David Boder: Aha. Now, Gert, that was a very comprehensive report. I have heard some things from you that I had not heard from others, because I [interviewed] very few German prisoners. You also described things very intelligently. I am convinced that it is a good report, that I may play for certain German groups in Chicago. I am convinced that they will—I cannot say, they will be happy, but very satisfied to learn of this. Many thanks.
  • Gert Silberbart: You are welcome . . .
  • David Boder: [In English] This concludes the report with Gert Silberbart at, eh, about seven minutes of Spool 83. Paris, August the 27th 1946. In a home supported by the Swiss government for refugees of the war. Illinois Institute of Technology wire recording.
  • David Boder: This concludes the reproduction of Spool 9-83, the interviewee was Silberbart. The sign-off gave by mistake Paris, it really was in Geneva but somehow the interviewer automatically having interviewed people for a number of days in Paris still gave the sign-off as Paris. It is Geneva . . . Switzerland. November the 14th, 1950, Chicago, of course. Boder.
  • Contributors to this text:
  • Transcription : Stefan Meuser
  • English Translation : Stefan Meuser